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Episode 10 Transcript



Arivee Vargas: Hi I'm Arivee Vargas. I believe we're all so powerful beyond our wildest imaginations. We have the ability to overcome the fears, self-doubt, negative beliefs and all the other roadblocks that hold us back from having the life and career we really want and deserve. That's why I created the Humble Rising podcast.


(Music plays)


I want to help you get clear on what a joyful and fulfilling life and career looks like for you. And help you go after it with all you have. Each week, we'll talk to badass inspirational women sharing their journeys. We’ll dig into their successes, their failures, challenges, the different shifts, and their careers in their personal lives and so much more. Be inspired, get motivated, and get ready to rise. This is the Humble Rising Podcast.


Jasmine: Through that process of becoming a leader, moving myself up in management of becoming my true self, I started to realize that there weren't many supporters or individuals out there coaches for women of color who had gone through the similar journey that I had.


Arivee: You are going to love this week's episode. I have doctor Jasmine Escalera with me this week. Jasmine is a competent coach and career strategist for women of color. She has proven coaching programs that help her clients beat self doubt, build confidence and boss up in their career. Jasmine was born and raised in Brooklyn, NY and received her bachelors degree in biochemistry from Pace University and has a PHD in pharmacology from Yale. She's held high level nonprofit management positions, designing programs that increase the quality of life and health care options for underserved populations as well. And Jasmine just completed her first TEDx talk. It's called conquering workplace conformity as a woman of color, detailing her journey as Latina and stem. So you definitely wanna check that out. And in this episode, Jasmine and I go all in on actionable strategies. On how to kick impostor syndrome, shed self doubt, confront fear, and really own your career. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Jasmine.


So Jasmine, thank you so much for joining me on the Humble Rising podcast. I am really excited that you're here with us. I love your work. I know I'm still just already, but I love your work. I think it's so important the work you're doing for women of color and helping them with their confidence and imposter syndrome and helping them break barriers, I think it's really important work and so I'm so happy that you're here. Like I said, also, I love your reels. I love your content on social media. I love what you're doing. And so I just wanted to thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.


Jasmine: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and I love what you are doing in your mission with the podcast. So, anything that I can do to support.


Arivee: Aww thanks so much. So Jasmine, so for who you don't know you, which I don't know who wouldn't (both laugh) but if for people who don't and don't know the work you do? Can you share a little bit about your story and what led you to do the work that you do now?


Jasmine: Sure, yeah so you know what led me to do the work that I do now is really my a lot of my upbringing and just the challenges that I've experienced in my career as a Latina in stem, so I grew up in, you know, in the projects in Brooklyn, NY, and I was very much surrounded by, you know, my community black and brown, individuals who supported me tremendously, being the bookworm that I was through every endeavor every educational endeavor that I set out to encounter, so I really felt like my community cheerleader did and championed me and I felt very supported by my community. But in many ways it also sheltered me because I assumed and thought that going out into the real world or the corporate world or the work world it was gonna be the same that I was gonna get the same level of support that there were gonna be other individuals who looked like me, acted like me, talk like me. And when I started my stem journey in, I Pace University for my bachelors in biochemistry, it was almost kind of like a slap in the face because I I didn't see individuals who look like me. I had been educated in the New York City public School system, so I felt like there were other individuals there who seemed so much smarter than me or so much more intellectual, especially in sort of the path that I chose and that really caused me to start shutting down and that was the point at which I started to shut down. And not just really shut down and make myself small, but also really start to doubt myself, my capabilities, my intellect and my reason for really being in that space, which was all of my achievements that I had gotten me there. When I started my PhD at Yale, it it just amplified, you know, because here we are in this very prestigious environment with individuals who for sure don't look like me again in the stem field, you know, really being around very competitive white men. And so, it just became even more challenging to really step into or continue to be myself, you know, continue to be that Latina who grew up in Brooklyn, who was proud of the person that she was. When I made my shift into my career, when I really started my career. I think that was the point at which it it just seemed to get so bad because I, you know, with years of impacted and compounded doubt and fear and and just not stepping up to the success in the level that I knew I was capable of. That's when I really just started to make myself so tremendously small, where I would speak up in environments with individuals who look like me or were like where I felt comfortable, but in every other space that I never seem to be able to achieve that. So, I started to really decide that you know I wanted to be the woman that I wanted to be. I wanted to be the individual who, when I was younger, was very confident and very sure of herself. And so, I took myself on an exploratory journey. I call it. A really reconnecting back to my background to my community, to my identity, to myself, determining the career woman I wanted to be, and starting to show up as her every single day, breaking down those fears that doubt, that impostor syndrome, which was so fierce for me. And I stepped into and owned my power and through that process, you know of, you know, becoming a leader, moving myself up and management of becoming my true self. I started to realize that there weren't many supporters or individuals out their coaches for women of color who had gone through the similar journey that I had. So, I really decided that, you know, through my journey through the work that I was doing, I wanted to support other women. And so, what I do now in my coaching is I support women of color who are feeling doubtful who are feeling fearful, who are feeling impostor syndrome. And that essentially is stopping them from obtaining the career success they want. And so, I help them to break down those mindset barriers while identifying core strategies that will help them make that step up so they can really succeed in their careers the way they define it.


Arivee: Yeah, yeah. No. Such a powerful story. And your story is is like so many others. And we just don't know about them. Right. Because women tend to not talk about them or what we do, especially as women of color is put our heads down and we just try to get through it. And we don't try to complicate it. And I’m curious so, when you finally experience that shift of reconnecting and stepping back into your power and really trying to ignite the potential, you know you always had, was there one moment? Was there an event that really shifted it for you and said, OK, this is, this has to stop? I have to reconnect. I have to recenter myself; I have to ground myself again and go after my career the way that I want to. Was there a moment?


Jasmine: Yeah. I don't know if there was a moment or more. So, like an epiphany where, you know, where I I really do admit. To everyone and and I have a TEDx talk on this as well that I was a conformist in the workplace. You know, I was surrounded by white men, and I wanted to be successful. I always wanted to be successful. So, I tried to emulate styles or do things in certain ways to obtain what I wanted to impress them, to act in some way, the way they they wanted me to act. But it was an epiphany and realizing that it didn't matter what I did, that I wasn't them, and I was never gonna be inducted into this society. I was never gonna be inducted into this space. So, it was more of this realization of like I am, you know, giving myself anxiety and panic attacks, thinking of going to work and being someone different than I truly am. And I'm never gonna get what I want anyway. You know, I fought for a promotion that I deserved that I truly deserved for years. UM where you know, other white men were getting promoted within a year of just coming into the into the workspace and into the environment for doing less than I was. And that's not anything on them. It's the truth, and it was something that it was clear to me, so I just felt like no matter what I did, it wasn't gonna matter anyway, so at least I should wake up every single day feeling good about myself. So, it was more of an epiphany. Rather than one specific thing, and I think like many of my clients and like many of the women of color out there, it's compounded. It's just it's just consistent and it's constant. So, you just get to that moment when you're, like, forget it, you know.


Arivee: Yes, but then, but then what is that step right? So, you get to that moment and I hear that right. You get to that place. What do your clients find? And what did you find was the best like, next step you hit that moment where you like this has got that change has to come and I have to be the driver of that change. And So, what is that next thing you do?


Jasmine: Yeah. I think for me and for my clients, the journey I take them on is really defining the woman that they wanna be. And I think it's really important to start with that vision, but also to start with the recognition that sometimes we put our careers in a box and we say like, that's the nine to five and that's over there and we don't consider how all of the things that are going on in our lives need to be considered in terms of our careers. So, I really like to go through the exercise with my clients and this is one that I took myself through. Who's the career woman that I really wanna be? And how do I want her to move? You know, throughout the world. But also, I don't wanna put her in a box. I want. I want the woman I am outside of work to be the woman I am inside of work. So, what are my core values? What are the things I'm looking for? What's important to me? So, I think it's important to start with the vision of who you want to be, how you wanna be moving around in this world, whether it be within the environment or with or outside of it. And then asking yourself So what is it that's holding me back from becoming that woman? You know, and I think that's such a powerful question of what is holding you back from becoming that woman, because that helps you to get really clear on the barriers and a lot of times it isn't, you know, like, yes, it is, you know, my environment, my environment is holding me back, but let's strip away that fact. What is under your control that you that is holding you back and that's where you get into the things like well, I'm scared, but if I make a change, I'm just gonna step into another environment that's the same as the one I'm in. Or I'm, you know, or I'm doubtful of my abilities to be able to be this woman or the feeling of a uncertainty as to what your path even might be to get there. So, there's a lot of the internal things that you then sort of have to have to really face.


Arivee: Or what have you found is the place where a lot of clients get stuck? Where they're like, oh, this is really tough for me.


Jasmine: I think a lot of it is around fear. You know, as women of color, we are told to live certain kinds of lives, and there's a lot of fear around. Changing the expectations, whether it be the expectations of your family or the expectations of society, there's this fear of really being able to walk your own path and do it your own way. And there's also this expectation that everyone is gonna judge me because I wanna do it the way that I wanna do it. A lot of it that I see is fear and and judgment. And I I experienced that as well. I thought that you know me deciding to be a career coach and me wanting to do this, you know, completely different thing that no one in my family had ever even heard of was gonna bring about a lot of you know, what the hell is this chick doing now? But you know, when you when you start to walk your path and and people start to see how joyful you are in it and how present you are in it and how confident you are in it because it's you. Perceptions change.


Arivee: Yeah. I I remember when I decided to become a coach. My mom, my mom was like, Que eso? What is that coaching. Yeah. Cause it's right. I mean that end of itself is foreign to a lot of people, but I really, I really wanna delve deeper into this issue of fear and about expectation and fear of judgment, fear of rejection, fear of what people will say and all that. How have your clients overcome those obstacles? Like how how have they worked through them to get to the other side?


Jasmine: Yeah, I think it's a matter of confronting the fear head on and identifying where it's coming from. So, you know, I I've had clients that say I'm fearful of walking my own path because my family and my parents always taught me that, you know, a nine to five, that's like, that's the win. Like, good nine to five with security, you get that good nine to five that pays you. You have your health insurance, and I don't wanna do something different because it's going against the grain it's going against what they think is stable and then they're gonna be concerned. They're gonna be worried. So it's it's almost kind of about really reidentifying or reclaiming what you think stable means and really reidentifying and reclaiming what you think work means to you, you know, stripping away kind of the the preconceived ideas or notions that you have about these very big terms and these very big words and these and these paths and almost kind of allowing yourself to go back to infancy where your brain is doesn't have all this stuff stuck in it and you get to redefine what that means to you on your own terms. And that sounds very existential, very woo woo. But that's really what it is. Yeah. You know, like these, these ideas and thoughts of what is normal or what is stable or put on you and you literally have to take them off like a coat and put them over there and then find the one you want to wear.


Arivee: I love that. Take it off and then you figure out what coat you wanna wear yeah. I love it. That's hard for so many people because they're they're it's like they're naked. They're bare. (Jasmine: Yeah. It’s vulnerable.) Right. It's very vulnerable.


Jasmine: It is very vulnerable. And I try to get my clients to see the excitement. And in the place of, like, you get to, you get to wear anything you want (Arivee: You get to decide.) Yeah, this is your thing, and it can. That can induce even more fear for her, for people who are already scared and uncertain. But you know, I think that when when they are ready and that's the core thing too, right. You have to be ready to go on this journey? Like if you're not ready to, like, strip it all off, be vulnerable and bare and then build yourself back up. Then you're gonna let that fear consistently be the driver. So, with so many of my clients who, you know, move on through the phase with me, the core thing that I hear them say is I'm ready. I don't want it to be like this anymore, you know? And and that's the beauty of it is that you have to make that decision, that you wanna cross into that vulnerable state that you wanna go into this deep space that you haven't gone into before, but that's where the the transformation happens.


Arivee: Yes, yes. And it's as if you have to see no other alternative like you that that this is only path, right. I say this all the time, so I really want and right no, but I, but if you're not ready for the confrontation part for yourself, then it's not gonna work, right? Because you have to really want that and be willing to challenge what you've what you thought before about yourself and about everything that's really powerful. And I think it's important the audience to know that it's not just people say, well, I'll just change jobs and I'm like, well, it's more than that. It's it's not just the environment like you said, it's what you think about that environment. You think of yourself, what you believe about yourself. I know you do a lot of work around impostor syndrome, and I would love for you to talk more about what it is and how you see it show up for your clients and the strategies that you use to help them overcome it.


Jasmine: Yeah, so impostor syndrome is a really hot topic right now, and there is a lot of questioning around whether it's real or not. Yeah, almost in a way. And. And I find the debate to be so fascinating because I I'm a scientist, I'm a researcher, but I also have this very sort of existential component to myself, where I do believe in, like, the internal work. And so, for me, you know, impostor syndrome really is about the internal component, right? It's how you see you. It's you seeing yourself as a fraud and you thinking everyone else is going to perceive you that way or figure you out someday. So, you walk around with this fear with this doubt. With this uncertainty about your own abilities and capabilities, you're incapable of accepting acknowledgement of win because you don't think you deserve it. And so, a lot of the core components of impostor syndrome for me and for the clients that I work with is internal. There is a component of impostor syndrome that I truly believe impostor syndrome is triggered by the external environment, right? If I had stayed in my in my comfort zone, if I had stayed in my community, I may have never experienced imposter syndrome, but I also would not have challenged myself to potentially be more or be better or put myself into situations that would stretch me. So, I do think there's an environmental factor to impostor syndrome, but I think it's more of like the trigger of it rather than like, that's where the impostor syndrome is really stemming from, I think, Imposter syndrome is very about you, you know, and about how you see you. And so, the ways that I help my clients to really overcome that is it's about how it manifests for them. So, you know, if you're the type of individual who cannot accept the fact that you're amazing, you cannot see the fact that you are dope as fuck. Oops excuse me. (Both laugh) (Arivee: It’s ok. I'm not gonna edit that out.) Beep dope as beep. It's I think it’s; you know, I think it's important to then recognize that your particular way that it's manifesting is you don't accept that you don't accept those acknowledgements. So, it's then about reconnecting to the strengths, reconnecting, reconnecting to all of those things that you have done well, it's also about learning to do more of that in your day-to-day work or in your day-to-day life. Because when you're doing the things that you're great at, you feel more confident, you're more willing to accept acknowledgement and you're more capable of then moving in the world, you know, feeling better about you. So, it's it's a lot about how it shows up specifically, you know for some of my first mother clients, it's they're working so hard to prove their worth to themselves and to others. So again, it's just about reconnecting back to your value and your worth.


Arivee: Underneath that is there this sense of, you know, I'm not worthy. So, I work, (Jasmine: Yeah.) To be worthy for myself.


Jasmine: But then, but then you don't accept the compliments and accomplishments anyway. So, then you're back to the I'm not good enough and I'm not ready yet. Are there this vicious cycle and they're these? You know, I think one of the core things, too, about impostor syndrome that I find really fascinating is the is the thought piece. (Arivee: Yes.) It's all goes back to the way you think about yourself and and the flipping of those thoughts is really important and impactful too.


Arivee: Yeah, the reframing. Yeah. And I think it's hard, I always say, when I'm working with folks, I'm like, you know, but do you believe that, that reframed thought? (Jasmine: Yeah) because you have to believe that if you don't believe it, then. That's why they have to come up with it themselves, right? That's why the coach doesn't tell them obviously what thought to replace it with. But I always found it interesting, and I didn't actually realize this and that I had been doing that. I was at a law firm for a while and I didn't realize that what I was doing was like hustling for my worth until I had my first son, and I didn't have that source of validation and I was like, who am I, right? Like who am I mean, yes, I'm, I'm, I'm Latina Dominican. Yes. Yeah, OK, yeah. But when you’re stripping that down. Who am I? And how am I worthy to myself? Just because? And that was huge. And it's true. I literally was like, a breakdown. I had stripped things away to build myself back up (Jasmine: 100%. Yeah.) And I and I, but do you find Jasmine, and do you find that that this is more common in certain professions or industries or no, you feel like it's across the board from people that you've worked with?


Jasmine: I think it's pretty pervasive. I think it's pretty across the board. I felt like being in stem just because by nature, it's a very competitive field. Now we're talking about things like sharing data and like being more inclusive. But it just wasn't like that when I was, you know, going to school when I was getting my PhD, when I was getting my bachelors it. It was a really tough environment for anyone who didn't look like the stereotypical white man in science. So, I think in certain environments it can be more triggering to people just because by nature the environment it's competitive or you know it's breeds of certain kind of feeling just in general. So, I think maybe certain environments, yes, but I think it's just I think it's pervasive, I think it's everywhere.


Arivee: Yeah, I have found that, especially with like uber competitive schooling to get to that place. Like, uh, (Jasmine: yeah) PHD or like medical school, law school, these uber competitive places that. (Jasmine: Yeah) train you in that mindset that like, you're only. And you're only great because someone else didn't do well. Writers of the curve and all of that. So, (Jasmine: Oh gosh yeah.) So, yeah, I I think that's true too. Is that there? It's like you're a certain person going into that environment you're in that you try to navigate that the best you can and the you get out and you're in the world and you're like uh, (Jasmine: What the hell?) Yeah, yes, exactly, yes.


Jasmine: It can be it can be really tough. I see clients that have all kinds of backgrounds and settings, and they all experience it. So, I really think unfortunately that these work places. When you think of the workplace or when you think of the work culture there was that show that came out a few years ago that I refused to watch. I watched one episode, Mad Men, and I felt like it very much showed exactly who the style or environment of workplace was made for and it was very much the white man and I don't think much has changed like, sure, we're not slapping women on the butts over here and you know, women aren't just secretaries anymore. Like, yeah, things have changed in terms of roles we get to fill different kinds of roles we do get to have leadership opportunities, but the way we get there and how much we have to fight for it, that hasn't changed at all. You know, and we continue to get smacked with, you know, the glass ceiling or the broken rung or whatever the hell you wanna call it today. But, like we're not getting paid the same, we're not getting advancements in the same way. It's still there and I think that's every single industry, unfortunately.


Arivee: Yeah. What do you say to you know, those who are listening, who they're like yup I have imposture syndrome that that that is all me? I feel like a fraud. I feel like I'm going to be found out any minute now, but I I went to such and such school. I am trained. I I know I do good work. But I know I have this issue and I just can't. I just can't get out of this. I can't get out of this pattern of thinking. How do you navigate that with your clients where they feel stuck in that? They're like, no, I get it. Intellectually I get it. Cause Jasmine this comes up all the time. People like, (Jasmine: yeah) logically I understand. But then to feel different is a challenge. So, what do you want?


Jasmine: Well, for, for me, the way my brain works. Being a scientist and being a researcher, I needed to first be able to name it. I couldn't give myself grace around my experiences until I actually was capable of saying this is what I am going through. So, you know, being able to name impostor syndrome and say you're experiencing it, is the first step. I think the second step to impostor syndrome is not just thinking about jumping right into how you how you see yourself or what you're thinking or what are your triggers, but to actually take it all the way back. So, impostor syndrome really originates from family thoughts. How your family perceives you, things that happened early on in your childhood and the way you grew up. So, for me, my impostor syndrome was manifested a lot around my parents. You know, my dad didn't have a high school education. My mom went to college when I was much older. They put a lot of pressure on me to be a success. I grew up in the projects and every day I had to hear about you have to be the one to leave. You have to be the one to succeed. You don't wanna live like this, right? I know we didn't. We didn't have money. And so like, I had lots of pressure put on me and at such a young age to be successful. And that in itself made me classify or define success in a certain way. And also, the achievement of success, I I am the type of individual that believes that you have to work nonstop and hustle all the time to be successful. That's a mindset that I'm still trying to break, you know, so. That comes from that comes from me as a child and and what I experienced and what I was told. With impostor syndrome before you dive deep into, I see myself this way, or I think of myself this way, or I'm not worthy. It's almost kind of like going all the way back and asking yourself. Well, when was the first time you didn't feel you were worthy or what were some of the family influences or factors that you know are contributors to you not feeling worthy? You know, it it's about going back to those experiences because I think when you're capable of really being able to say wow, it's because of this thing. You just gain more power back. Right now, the Impostor syndrome has less power and you have more, so you just start to increase your power over it. And power comes from knowledge. We always say that knowledge is power. So, you have to get deep with yourself and not just with how it manifests today, but with where it came from a very long time ago. And there's this beautiful book that it's actually not an impostor syndrome, but it is one of my favorite books about limiting beliefs. And it's called, “The Big Leap” by Gay Hendricks, and I recommend that everyone read it. (Arivee: I'll put it in the show notes.) Yeah. Yeah. It's so good. And he's a psychologist, and gosh, he's been around forever. And this book is really about how you perceive yourself. But where that really comes from, and it all stems from childhood, and he gives you some examples of how certain thoughts might be manifesting for you and and what childhood experiences might be connecting to it. And that's a great one to really dive into because you need to find the origin and the origin is not the work environment, you're in today. The origin is what you experienced so long ago that I created that thought that is manifesting today in a negative way.


Arivee: I know I'm gonna put that a book in the show notes for sure. I wanna go back to something that you said about the way that you defined success or thought about success and achievement, you know, was shaped by how you grew up. Right. And so many, so many especially I would say latin-x women who are the children of immigrants or very close to that, you know, they see their parents hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, like, not have that much, not have much to give them in terms of, you know, they don't make a lot of money, but they're telling their kids, like, I came here so you could do better. I came here so this and what they know is better is like a stable like we talked before, a stable job, vendor security, health insurance. The things that the US quote, unquote promises the children of immigrants. Right. Right. (Jasmine: That’s hilarious.) “Promises” (Jasmine: That's right.) I think a lot of the listeners are in that place of my parent’s expectations. What my parents passed on to me and in a way of they feel bad about that. They're like, no, I don't want. I don't want to my parents to feel as if there's something wrong with my upbringing. Right. Because I have parents can get up sometimes, get a little defensive about the decisions that they made, but they were doing the best that they could at that time and they are not aware all the time of how how they're raising you is it gonna affect you as you get older, for good or bad. I always say that our parents do the best that they can and then we just do differently and that's OK. It's just a different approach. But what do you say to those women who are who are really in that place of? I feel like I'm on this hamster wheel. And I feel like all I know is to work, work, work, work, work and achieving, achieving achieve. Because I'm doing this for my family. I'm doing this for my community. I'm doing this to show people that you can do it. Like, how do you get them to stop?


Jasmine: You are such a great question. I would love to answer that for myself. I do well with it with my clients, but not for myself. No, but you know, going back to what you were saying about, you know, your your parents, I always start the exploratory exercise around your family and family impact with the disclaimer of your parents did raise you the best way that they could. But we all have our own poop, you know, like and and and it's and it's no (Arivee: You can say shit.) OK, I said. I said the F word before. Now I'm stepping back and using kiddie talk. Yeah, we all do have our own shit and it's. And it's not about shaming anybody, (Arivee: Right.) We're not shaming anybody by saying that your parents did something that impacted the way you see yourself today. It's not about shame. And it's not about blame. It's about clarity and with clarity comes knowledge and with knowledge comes power. So, I always tell my clients look at you like you're a success right now. Where you are and they did a good job. This isn't about like looking at the thing that they didn't do right. (Arivee: Right, right.) Really about just an understanding. I don't think in terms of, you know, getting off the hamster wheel. You know, this pressure to to be the best to to really the pressure to to be the best for you, for your kids and to to be the best for your community and be an example that's, you know, my question or my framework around that is like. What does your community really need from you? Or what does what does your family really need from you? Because when you start to really ask yourself what people really need you to do or show up as you start to realize that you're like 10 thousand steps ahead of that, and like you know, you're doing extra when it comes to children. Like, yeah, they want you to show up, but they want you to be happy. And when it comes to your community, sure. You wanna be a pillar of strength and you wanna show them that it's possible. But you already have. So, it's it's almost like, you know, asking yourself like, what do you really need to show up as for other people and and you start to realize that what you need to show up as is just as a supportive individual who's happy who’s joyful. And that's what you need to connect to. (Arivee: Yeah) Not this hustle. Not this hard work.


Arivee: Right. Right. You show up as yourself, you show up as? (Jasmine: Yeah.) That’s only you can do is is is you in your all all of your uniqueness. Yeah. Wait, so Jasmine, let's circle back to limiting beliefs because I know people heard that term. And are like, what is that? Can you define that for folks?


Jasmine: Yeah, yeah. And. And “The Big Leap” is such a great book for this. I mean, limiting beliefs are exactly that. They are beliefs that you have about yourself that limit your capabilities in some way. They limit either the way you see yourself. Or the success that you believe you can have, or what you think you can achieve. You are basically the one that is putting the ceiling on yourself. No one else is putting it on you. You're putting it on you. So those are our limiting beliefs and limiting beliefs are. They are just detrimental, and they're everywhere, and I remember reading something like you have I don’t even remember how many. Like 90,000 or 60,000 thoughts in a day and like, (Arivee: yeah) 80% of them are negative and it's like damn, man, I'm really killing myself here. But that’s it, it's you putting a ceiling on yourself. You telling yourself in some way that you're incapable of doing something. Whatever that something is, and it shows up in every single aspect of of your life. It doesn't just show up in your career. It's it's something that shows up everywhere.


Arivee: Yes, the amount of thought work I have to do. (Jasmine: Yeah.) or beliefs. I'm like, OK, I can't refrain today. I'm gonna do.


Jasmine: Yeah. No, sometimes you're too exhausted and you just let it. You just let it fly and. (Arivee: Yeah.) And, you know, one of the things that I tell my clients to do is. I I'm a journaler or I love to journal. So I tell my clients to carry around a small notebook so that they can write their thoughts or write, you know, the limiting beliefs that come up for them throughout the day or, you know, for my very tech savvy because some of my, some of my clients are young and they're like a new book that would be. I was like, OK, so speak into your phone, like, put a voice note together of your of your thoughts and your limiting beliefs, because you'll start to see patterns around it. Like, that's the, you know, I'm very much a data person. So, I love data. When you start to really track your thoughts and track how you see yourself and you do this every day and italic lines try to do it for around two weeks. Just crack your thoughts for around two weeks, but really do it and you will start to see some serious patterns around how you think about you and you'll also. Well, if you take that one step further and you ask yourself like, where am I when this thought is happening or who am I around when this thought is happening, then you really get some really juicy information because you'll start to realize that certain people or certain environments trigger you to think about yourself in certain ways.


Arivee: Yes. Oh, that's really powerful. That's that's such a great tip. I really hope that people will do that. And I and Jasmine I'm a fan of writing too. Writing, actually, with a pen or pencil. (Jasmine: It’s therapeutic.) And I think it's very different. I I always say this, people laugh, but I don't love the sound of my voice. So doing a voice note to me would be like. No, no, I couldn't listen to that back like that. (Jasmine: And you're a podcaster?) (Both laugh) Yes. Well, I saw this post by Adam Grant, who's award professor, and he was saying that the only person that probably likes their voice on a podcast is Morgan Freeman.


Jasmine: Well, he's got a great voice. Yeah, I mean, that's that's a great one.


Arivee: But no Jasmine when I wanted to delve even deeper into this idea of beliefs and owning your career and driving your career because something I've been thinking about a lot lately is because I I subscribed that I believe that we can own and drive our careers and and we have so much more power than we think we have, right. But then I always think of theirs. And I feel like there's a caveat of, but there is systemic racism and their systemic sexism, and there are there are these hard barriers. And then I say, well, it's how you navigate through that so that they don't exist. It's like, you know, you have to navigate but not a certain point. Isn't there a point where you're driving, driving, driving and you hit that ceiling that you just can't shatter?


Jasmine: Sure. Yeah, definitely. I mean, that's why I'm that's why I'm working on working for myself, because I feel like I've definitely hit that barrier. Like I've hit that that point. I think that's why we're seeing a lot more women of color leaving the workforce. And doing their own thing because you you do continually hit those challenges and those barriers. I'm an optimist. I will always be an optimist and I truly do believe that there are environments out there for you to be successful. And it's about connecting to what you need to thrive, not survive, and understanding that very clearly and seeking that out and not tolerating anything less than that. And that can be really difficult 'cause that can sometimes mean that you're looking around for a little while. But yeah, I think that that's the only way to really be able to not hit that wall that you're talking about. And with my clients, I try to be very realistic with them. Like I don't work with my clients on breaking down systemic racism. I I can't do that. You know, like there is, you know, and and and it sucks. And I tell my clients all the time. Like I'll talk to you about it all day long. Like it's it's. You know a topic that I love to talk about, but I can't fix that for my clients. What I can do is empower them to connect to what they need to thrive and to find that particular system that works for them completely and then they will be able to succeed. That doesn't mean that they'll they won't hit a wall in the future, and they'll have to renavigate, you know, they'll have to figure it out again. Like OK. Did something about me change, did something about this environment change? What's going on here? But it's about really being able, I think, to start with what you can control and what you can control is yourself. Yeah. And the environments that you choose to put yourself in. Now, I think that that's really important it’s connecting back to that. And like I said, that doesn't mean that I don't believe that it doesn't exist. It does exist. I've encountered it myself many times. But I have chosen to decide that the way that I'm going to break it down is empowering myself, empowering others and getting people uncomfortable. Because when we start stepping into the workplace as ourselves. We will make them uncomfortable, but that's the whole point. (Arivee: Yeah.) It doesn't happen with people just sitting around telling us how we're supposed to act. So, I think it's important that that's maybe one of the ways we can help break this down not every way, but one of the ways we can contribute to it.


Arivee: Yeah, you know, oftentimes, it comes from a place of people feeling like they don't have control, right? And so, you're saying, but control what you can control and let you you actually can't.


Jasmine: Yeah. And so many times like clients will come to me because they have, you know, confidence issues or they're not showing up at work authentically or whatever. Their core problem is when we start to realize is they need to get the F out of there like that to get out, you know, like this is never gonna be the environment for you, but that's by deeply connecting to yourself that you start to realize some of that like, but you can actually take that off and say like, Oh no, it really is. This environment really isn't for me because it's triggering me in these ways and it's causing me to think these things about myself.


Arivee: Yes, yes. And when you talk about deeply connecting to yourself. And we talk about core values. You mentioned core values before. How do you go about defining those core values?


Jasmine: It changes. It's like I actually don't think your values are stagnant. So, when I was, you know, starting out in my career, one of my values was success and I had defined success as I wanna be a director. You know, I wanna be in the room. I wanna be making the decisions. Now you know one of my core values is flexibility and mental health and you know, space and time to be able to do all of the other things that I wanna do. So, I've redefined what that core value has meant to me in terms of success. In the workplace now, success in the workplace is very different than what success in the workplace was ten years ago when I started. So, I think, you know, in terms of your core values, it's really identifying what you feel you need in this moment to be successful, you know. What you feel you need in this moment to be that career woman that you see yourself being and being very clear with that and and standing in that very clearly and then understanding that like your values change and shift as your life does. So, you know, again, we sometimes like think that careers are these linear things I’m this. And then I'm this. And then I'm this and then I'll be here, you know. But your life doesn't act like that. So why would we ever assume that your career would? Your career is just as attached to who you are and what you do outside of the workplace as any other component is, and you have to take that into consideration when thinking about your values and how those values shift and change.


Arivee: Yeah, you know, that's why when you know we're in this pandemic and working remotely, people are like, oh, though your kids are in the background. I'm like, listen, when I come to work, I'm not work Arivee I’m Arivee, you know, like it's personal and work that are integrated all the time. People who leave their true selves at home when they go to work. That's exhausting.


Jasmine: That's so exhausting. It's heartbreaking for me to see something like that, you know, in women and women of color because we have a lot of stuff outside of work that we have to manage and deal with a lot of stuff and we even see that with the pandemic, how much we've been affected by this, so to say, like, I'm gonna leave that at the door. It's it's sad. You know, because you can't. And I even had a a client of mine who's in the tech space who has children, say like, Oh well, I'm not another culture. Someone else told her like to lie. You know, when she was going on interviews and say she didn't have children and it broke my heart. Not because she wasn't saying she didn't have friends, but because I was like, well, what's gonna happen when you have to go to the doctor’s appointment? What's gonna happen when something comes up? Are you just going to say to yourself I have to prove this lie is true or I have to prove myself? So, I'm gonna neglect all of the other things in my life. Like, that's so stressful for you. Why would you ever wanna do that to yourself? So yeah, I I think that whole leave yourself at the door is again was created for white men who didn't have to bring their work, their home life into work like they they could keep that separate because they had, you know, wives who were taking care of their shit and so for me it's like we can't. That's not the way it works.


Arivee: Right. So alright, Jasmine. So, we're nearing the end of our time together. But I wanna do rapid fire with you so. I know you mentioned one of your favorite books already, but what are some like two of your other favorite books?


Jasmine: I really loved Michelle Obama's book “Becoming” I felt like there were so many components in that book that resonated with me specifically, especially when she talked about going down a career path that wasn't really the one she wanted to go down, but everyone around her was like, you know, you're doing so great. And yeah, this is amazing. And then she kind of thought like, well, I guess I should just do this. So, you know, there was a lot of of that that really resonated with me. And then there's this beautiful wisdom book called “The four agreements.” (Arivee: Yes.) Which I've read a few times and I have to say that I really enjoy it because. I'm trying to live my life within those four agreements and it's not easy. It's not easy at all. But I do think that those are four core things that if you can be focusing on and and trying to work. On they will bring you a level of peace.


Arivee: OK. Alright. Person that inspires you the most.


Jasmine: Person that inspires me the most is actually my dad. My father had a traumatic brain injury when I was 3-4 years old when I was very, very young and he had to learn to walk and talk and read and write all over again. And he's partially paralyzed because of it, he's never lost that spark in terms of you can do anything, and even though physically he can't do a vast amount of things he taught me, and he taught my sister that we could do anything. And so, you know, it was very inspiring to sort of see every day how he manages his life, which is difficult, but it inspires me because I just find that he's always positive. He's always radiating positivity and good energy. And I think that's the way I wanna live every aspect of my life too.


Arivee: Yes, yes, any mantra or saying you live by Jasmine? It could be ugly multiple mantras.


Jasmine: Yeah, I think the one that I've been sticking with me a lot lately. UM, is everything that I need to win is already within me. And I've been saying a lot, like the victory is already mine. It's just a matter of time for it to show up. Because very often we can want to rush the end goal. There's a beauty in sitting in the space that you're in knowing that the end goal will show up when it needs to show up. There's a real beauty and just kind of allowing yourself that space to just sit where you are.


Arivee: Yeah. Yeah. Oh yes, yes. And so hard to do, Jasmine.


Jasmine: It's very difficult. I mean, I tell those I I literally have those two things on in my bathroom mirror, like a post-it. It because I have to see it all the time, like none of this stuff. None of this stuff that we talked about today is easy. This is the hard work. None of it is easy. The thing though is and and this is my last word. I can assure you that when you work on these things, you will be the powerful woman you wanna be, and it's not gonna come from more money. It's not gonna come from the CEO, position or the director role. It's gonna come from you doing work.


Arivee: It's gonna come from you. That's right. OK. Jasmine, last question.


Jasime: Yeah.


Arivee: What does rising with humility mean to you?


Jasmine: The rising part has always been really about me being OK with who I become like who I end up being like. I always wanna be happy with the person that I am and I wanna project confidence and allow people to know that it's OK to be the confident person and woman you wanna be, and that you can do it with humility. But sometimes you don't need to. Like sometimes you need to just walk into a space, own a room and not be apart. Not apologize for that at all and almost kind of not really care how people see you, right. And there is strength in being able to say like, this is who I am, and I really don't care. What anyone else thinks about it, and that's not about being aggressive, that's not about being any certain way. It's just about being in love with you.


Arivee: Yes, and knowing who you are.


Jasmine: Yeah, right.


Arivee: Yeah. Jasmine this was so good. I think people, people are going to love this and I think there are so many different strategies that you shared so many different insights you shared that will actually really help people like they will go and say, let me let me track my my thoughts for two weeks like they will (Jasmine: Good) I wanna thank you so much for joining me. It was really impactful. Powerful. And you're doing such you’re a bad ass. I just have to tell you that.


Jasmine: Aww thank you.


Arivee: You have such great energy. And I'm a believer in the universe giving back to you exactly what you give it. So, I'm giving you an Amen on a Thursday.


Jasmine: Thank you. I love it.


Arivee: I’m giving you all the energy you put out in the world.


Jasmine: Thank you so much.


Arivee: Thank you so much Jasmine, I appreciate you so much.


Jasmine: Thank you so much for the opportunity.


(Music plays)


Arivee: Thank you all so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Jasmine. I sure did. Here are the key takeaways from our conversation, and there are honestly so many so many takeaways that I hope you were taking notes, or you know, you could go back, and you could listen to the episode again and again and again. Really go back and listen to it. But like we said during our talk, this is work. You know, it can be hard this internal work, but doing it is 1000% worth it and it fully allows you to step into how powerful you are. And I I know I always say this, but you are more powerful than you realize in this moment right now. To really own and drive a career that's true to you, right. So here are the takeaways. The first, you are dope as fuck. I had to start with that because it is a takeaway right? Know that you're amazing. Say that to yourself right now. Like, really say to yourself. I'll wait. I'll give you 5 seconds. OK. Did you say that? OK. Second, the first step when you are ready to take action is to ask yourself who is the woman I wanna be? How do I wanna move in the world? Number three, ask yourself, what's holding you back from becoming that woman? It's often fear, uncertainty or doubt, or something else, but pinpoint what it is exactly. Number four, fear often shows up in terms of fear of judgment, fear of not meeting certain expectations, including from family. Maybe it's your community or someone, or something else. Think about what form fear takes in your life so you can really address it and confront it. Number five, you have to be willing to strip away and redefine what success means to you. Number six, kicking impostor syndrome starts with going back to your childhood and understanding the first time you can recall feeling unworthy and undeserving. Ask yourself how a success and achievement and other things defined in your environment you have to peel back these layers first. You have to be ready to do this internal work and be vulnerable in this way to really reclaim your power #7 for two weeks, grab a journal or use the notes app on your phone or use the voice memo app on your phone so you can speak into the phone and write down your thoughts and notice two things. One where are you when you have these thoughts? And two who are you with when those thoughts come up for you? What you'll see are some patterns of thinking. You'll see those limiting beliefs when you look back at those two weeks that you can then address. #8 Jasmine recommended three books, which are first, “Becoming” by Michelle Obama. Second, “The Four Agreements” by Don Miguel Ruiz and the third is “The Big Leap” by Gay Hendricks and #9. The victory is already within you. I'll say it again. The victory. Is already within you. Now those are just some of the takeaways and I know that's nine and some people will say, well, those aren't takeaways cause, it's too many. So, I know that's a lot, but I feel like these don't even scratch the surface. So, I really encourage you to go back to the episode and listen to it again. And soak in all the knowledge that Jasmine is dropping. If you wanna connect with Jasmine and let me, tell you, she shares so much advice and insights on social media. So, if you wanna connect with her, you can reach her on Instagram. And I'll put her handle in the show notes. You can also reach her on LinkedIn. She has an impostor Syndrome workshop on May 11, so that's next week. The link to sign up for that is also in the show notes, so you're not going to want to miss that with her. Also don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you're not missing any episodes. If you want my doses of inspiration and motivation, deliver to your inbox, click the link in the show notes to subscribe. You can connect with me on IG too. I'm @Ariveevargas or I'm on LinkedIn as well. You can connect with me there, and I'd love to know and hear from you what you'd like to learn and hear more about on the podcast. And last but not least, if you've been asking yourself how to figure out the next step in your career you're confused didn't even know where to start. I've got a career clarity guide just for you. So, check with the show notes for the link and until next time, keep stepping into how incredibly powerful you are. You got this.


(Exit music plays)


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