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Part I with Dina

Humble Rising E80 Transcript

[00:00:00] Arivee: We all deserve to have fulfilling careers and lives. We deserve to experience joy and peace, and freedom and all of those things that make us feel truly alive.

[00:00:20] Arivee: It takes a lot of courage. For us to take the reins in our lives and take action that honors the deepest parts of ourselves in this current season of life, it takes a lot of courage to lean into growing and to lean into learning, and to know when it's time to make a change. I am Arivee. I'm a first generation Latina mom of 3 and life and high performance coach to women just like you.

[00:00:50] Arivee: And this podcast is for all of us looking to grow and learn and explore what a joyful and fulfilling life and career [00:01:00] can look like. And how to start living into that life right now. We're going to go deep and we're going to honor our truth in this podcast, and the best thing is we're gonna do it together.

[00:01:13] Arivee: So welcome to the Humble Rising Podcast.

[00:01:25] Dina: It's as effortless as breathing to come up with reasons. Like I still haven't done this, or this is still so far away, or I've only done this, or I've just done that. The way in which you are continuing to keep a certain story alive and kicking in your brain, and it feels foreign to challenge those thoughts, to say, wow, actually, I'm really proud of myself for doing this.

[00:01:49] Dina: Oh, wow. Look at how much I pushed myself out of my comfort zone to do that.

[00:01:53] Arivee: When I Think about this two-part episode, That I'm about to share with [00:02:00] you. There's so much that comes up for me. And on a fun slash serious slash not kidding.

[00:02:10] Arivee: I really do think of Beyonce's Renaissance album.

[00:02:13] Arivee: You all know. I love Beyonce, but the reason why her album resonates with me so much, especially those first 5, 6, 7 tracks on the album, is because of the empowerment she exudes, the confidence she exudes, and I listen to those songs whenever I need to feel a little bit more oomph.

[00:02:38] Arivee: I don't have a word for that, but it's like a little bit of umph, not a pep in my step, a little bit of a, some just more energy of I got this, I'm me, I'm happy to be me.

[00:02:49] Arivee: I love me

[00:02:50] Arivee: and I love using music to remind me of who I wanna be and who I already am. And so I just wanted to put that out there because I think it sets a great context for the conversation you are about to hear. So this is a special two-part episode, and I'm joined again by previous Humble Rising Podcast guest Dina Skipper.

[00:03:16] Arivee: You know, Dina and I went to high school together, so we have that history. She is a gender equality specialist turned certified life coach and founder of Enough Labs. With Enough Labs and her coaching, she supports women and girls in coaching on the intersections of leadership and confidence, and she is also a seasoned trainer and facilitator and is invited to speak regularly on radical self-acceptance, women's empowerment, and being enough.

[00:03:48] Arivee: She hosts the Internationally Chartered Podcast embracing enough, which showcases the stories of women and girls and their journey to feeling confident. She believes that once women accept the unwavering connection to the fact that they can do what they want to do, feel how they want to feel and be who they wanna be in this world, it is then when she's unstoppable.

[00:04:12] Arivee: And in our conversation, Dina and I talk about the thought patterns and beliefs that we need to unlearn, to love ourselves, to truly accept all we are and to become more confident. These thought patterns are a product of the messages that we as women internalize as girls, as we grow up. We learn and we pick up messages on how to seek and find praise, how to people please how to seek and find validation and approval from others.

[00:04:43] Arivee: And this could be from family society, our circles, and even people we may not even know well, but we talk about how we learn and pick up these messages and internalize them and how that all impacts how we show up, especially at work. We pick up all these messages about what and who we are supposed to be and how we're supposed to behave, and Dina and I talk about how we have the power to break free from this mold that we're expected to fit into, which has been designed by a patriarchal society, and we have to give ourselves permission.

[00:05:19] Arivee: To unlearn these patterns of thinking that really aren't serving us, and we have to relearn how to take up space that we deserve to take up. Dina and I also talk about how so often women don't celebrate themselves, don't give themselves credit or qualify their accomplishments. You know, someone will compliment you and you will instantly qualify it to diminish it instead of just saying thank you.

[00:05:45] Arivee: Right? And it's difficult for women to feel like they've done enough.

[00:05:48] Arivee: Or that they are in fact good enough. So we discuss all the awareness and a learning that has to happen, and Dina and I delve into how women can challenge and interrupt those thought patterns and believe that another way is possible, how to become more loving and kind towards ourselves, and how to step into who we wanna be unapologetically.

[00:06:12] Arivee: I am so glad you're here for this. Here is part one of my two-part conversation with Dina. Dina. Dina, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you. Everybody doesn't know I have my arms raised cause I'm so excited. Dina, welcome back. We had an amazing conversation last time and I love that we're having you back to talk about something that is near and dear to both of our hearts, and so let's just get right into it.

[00:06:45] Arivee: I know that you've talked a lot about this crisis of confidence of women when it comes to their careers and in their leadership positions, and I would love to just dive in and have you tell us more about that.

[00:06:58] Dina:Well, thank you first and foremost for having me back. Every conversation with you is fire. So I am honored and beyond excited.

[00:07:06] Dina: And yeah, I just, I feel like lately I have been deep in conversations and it feels like it's almost with every single one of my clients who are struggling with feeling like they're not good enough in their roles. They are struggling with confidence. They're struggling to feel like they deserve to be there.

[00:07:28] Dina: You know, we're rounding out. You know, sort of mid-year performance reviews and this struggle to feel like, does my supervisor think I'm doing a good enough job? Does my supervisor feel like I deserve to be in this role? How much more can I prove myself to be in this role? So these are the types of conversations that I'm having.

[00:07:49] Dina: And listen, I get it because I have been there. I understand where the crisis of confidence comes in, and I'm also finding myself just baffled. That so many women are struggling with this, where I think outwardly there's this projection of, I've got it, I'm good. But really internally and perhaps in spaces where they feel they can be truly vulnerable, be honest, and feel safe with their deepest thoughts.

[00:08:17] Dina: There's this real internalized pressure of just this crisis of. Not being able to access the confidence that they may be working really hard to project outwardly, and I think it's really wreaking havoc in not only their professional lives, but in other parts of their lives as well.

[00:08:34] Arivee: Dina, tell me a little bit more about where we think that comes from.

[00:08:40] Dina: Well, Arivee, you hear me talk about this all the time. No, I know, but I think I know. No, and now I think it's important for especially people listening, to understand that it's not that women enter these spaces and all the sudden. Of course feel this way. It's, it's one [00:09:00] structures and institutions and corporations, like were literally not created for women.

[00:09:06] Arivee: Like they were not created for us and for mothers. That's not how they were created. So there are structural issues and systemic issues and in institutional issues with them, there are. You know how we were raised and how we were socialized, so I'd love for you to talk a little more about that side.

[00:09:23] Dina: I mean, this did not happen overnight. I think this crisis of confidence, the gap in how we see ourselves versus the way the world sees us has everything to do with the way that women are socialized. From a young age, and I oftentimes reference the research that literally was the inspiration for me to create Enough Labs, which was that a girl's confidence peaks at age nine.

[00:09:48] Dina: And there's been a lot of research that supports this around this confidence cliff that adolescent girls fall off of. And what I've found anecdotally in my own work and research around this topic is [00:10:00] that there is this confidence cliff that we fall off of, you know, say around 13 to 15. And we can't get back to that gutsy, bold, unapologetic version of ourselves.

[00:10:11] Dina: And we're somehow trying to navigate systems and spaces, like you said, that are fundamentally flawed and frankly not built for women. So we as women, and I'm not trying to generalize, but I have been doing this for a while and have had a lot of conversations, is that it oftentimes falls on a woman where she believes there must be something wrong with me.

[00:10:34] Dina: Yeah, I have to try to fix this. So whether you swing between the pendulum of I'm too much or I'm not enough, you are racking your brain trying to figure out how do I show up in a way that will give me the validation that I am actually good at this. And it is exhausting. There's a lot of factors at play.

[00:10:53] Dina: Going back to, you know, when we're young and we're socialized to be pleasing at all costs, to be accommodating, to [00:11:00] make sure that we don't ruffle feathers, that we make sure that people are impressed by us. That, that there's, there's that proving energy that I think starts at a very early age where girls are looking for acceptance to be, um, seen, to be validated, and to be praised at every turn.

[00:11:18] Dina: So that doesn't go away when we enter the workforce. I think if anything, it just gets more amplified because we're mired in this complex network of, you know, the interplay of factors that are making us feel like we have to compete with one another. So if I'm not working as hard as my colleague over there, I'm gonna fall behind.

[00:11:40] Dina: And that can't happen because if I fall behind, Then that means I'm not doing it enough. It's the insidious cycle, right? The constant feedback that your brain is telling you that you need to keep pushing, keep trying, keep striving, and doing more is and doing more, and, and I think you can appreciate this.

[00:11:58] Dina: I mean you, I know you are in [00:12:00] conversations with a lot of moms and a mom yourself and navigating all of these different spaces almost simultaneously. How can one not think they're not doing enough?

[00:12:12] Arivee: Oh, so yes, I also, like so many of us, especially first generation or daughters of immigrant parents, or for me, like being Latina, there's so much about my upbringing that I internalized as I must be successful.

[00:12:34] Arivee: There is no option because I must be successful. Listen, not because my parents told me that, they didn't say that, but I internalized their sacrifice as I must make good on the sacrifice and I'm going to achieve. And I went through a lot of challenges, but what happened to me was I became, I don't wanna say an overachiever, but everything had to be fantastic.

[00:12:56] Arivee: And when you focus on, like for example, schooling, you have to get great [00:13:00] grades and then you're like, oh, then I have to do all these extracurricular activities. And then you're like, oh, I have to, when I go to work, I have to be really great at that. And then you're a mother and you're like, oh, I wanna be like the best mom ever.

[00:13:11] Arivee: And then, oh, I wanna be the best partner ever. And then you. Basically apply your mentality and approach and mindset to one thing, to every single thing that comes into your life over the course of your life. But the problem is we cannot be 1000% in every single thing we do. It. It's not humanly possible and we still do it.

[00:13:33] Arivee: We still judge ourselves so harshly, and I used to always say as a protection mechanism, when I was at the firm, I would always say, no one is gonna be harder on me than I am on myself. That is awful. I know, I know. Now that was not helpful, but back then I didn't. But it was to protect myself because I was like, I gotta be perfect.

[00:13:56] Arivee: And. No one is gonna make me feel bad about that. I would rather beat myself [00:14:00] up first. So I think there it's a mixture of needing to achieve and needing to be great at all the things and not accepting, like our humanness, that it's not possible. And by the way, men don't think about this. Okay? They just don’t. They're like, oh, it's 50%. That's good.

[00:14:17] Dina: Who are you telling? Now? This is not an intention to, to bash men. That is not what I'm about. Not at all there. No, it's not at all. There is a context, a very real context, where I find that as women, we're looking for reasons to search for evidence yes of are not enoughness, right?

[00:14:37] Dina: We're looking at ways to justify like feeling bad about ourselves. We're so hard pressed to find those opportunities where we can celebrate what we have done, and it is absolutely the easiest thing. It's as effortless as breathing to come up with reasons of like, yeah, but I still haven't done this, or This is still so far away, or I've only done this, or I've just done that.

[00:14:59] Dina: I [00:15:00] always go back to like the power of language. I mean, you are you, your thoughts create your reality and the way in which you are continuing to keep a certain story. Alive and kicking in your brain, you will continue to feed it the same evidence to make sure that's right and it feels foreign. It feels awkward to challenge those pathways, challenge those thoughts to say, wow, actually, I'm really proud of myself for doing this.

[00:15:31] Dina: Oh wow. Look at how much I pushed myself out of my comfort zone to do that. Look at how I still showed up in spite of my circumstances. I feel like it's reaching like. Epic proportions.

[00:15:41] Arivee: When you're triggered by something and you have your automatic responses to qualify your accomplishments or qualify, you know what you did well, and you know, you're talking about confirmation bias, like looking for that evidence of the thing that you already think and what you focus your brain on.

[00:15:59] Arivee: I think of how we get out of that loop because the neural pathway is telling you negative talk, negative talk qualification. It's not saying. No, you did it. Be proud of yourself. Celebrate yourself. We just don't do that even with little things, Dina, I had a colleague, they that said, oh my gosh, I love your nails.

[00:16:18] Arivee: And the first thing I said was, oh, they're extensions. And she goes, so what? They look good. And I'm like, oh, there I go, I, I'm doing that thing again. I'm qualifying. Nope. Thank you.

[00:16:40] Dina: Little, these little things. Where even about liking yourself, liking what you wear, liking your hair, little things become magnified and. It's not just about our work, it's about like all of us, like our whole being. I mean, I think about our mom's generation. I think about how they related to themselves and their confidence as they juggled motherhood and careers and everything in between. And I think about how what they modeled became internalized for us.

[00:16:57] Dina: And this is where I sort of [00:17:00] get honestly a little disheartened. And by a little, I mean a lot. Hmm. Because when does the cycle actually get interrupted? How do we start to model a different way of relating to ourselves and our progress and our enoughness? Because I've said this to you before, like the young girls are watching, and so were the boys.

[00:17:21] Dina: And so I just feel like whether it's in the workplace or whether it's in your home or whether it's when you're looking in F in at yourself in the mirror, there's just so many levels of where there's this knee-jerk reaction to qualify. What you see and what you don't see and how you relate to that belief.

[00:17:41] Dina: And I think that just wherever you are, it serves as a foundation and it shows up. In multiple spaces. It's, we started off this conversation by talking about our, this crisis of confidence in the workplace, but I oftentimes find in my conversations with women, if you're doing it in one place, you're doing it in several others.

[00:17:59] Arivee: [00:18:00] Absolutely. Dina, it's so interesting that we're talking about this now because I was in Trevor, my husband's office, and he has a picture of when he graduated from law school. This is a long time ago. And it's a picture of all of his family. And I'm in the picture because we were, we weren't engaged at the time, but we were together.

[00:18:18] Arivee: And I saw the picture and I saw myself and I'm like, oh, I look so pretty. And then I said to him, why didn't I love myself back then? And I think of those times I'm like, oh, I look, I look happy. Like why didn't I love myself back then? Yeah. And then I think of myself in 20 years and I'm like, I'm gonna kick myself.

[00:18:37] Arivee: If I look back on this time and I gave about so many things that I shouldn't care about, so true. And I often think of this because I've had a long journey with self-love and I'm still on a journey. And sometimes, you know, we try to reframe our thoughts and try to believe something else that could be possible.

[00:18:56] Arivee: And something I often tell myself when I'm beating myself up in my brain about my body is I'll say things like, why can't you just love your body as it is right now? Why can't you do that? Can you just love me? Like love on like I'm talking to myself, talking to my body. Just love like my body's telling me, just love on me.

[00:19:14] Arivee: Like give me that attention. Just love on me. Stop telling me that I'm not good enough. Cuz you've birthed three babies. You've had almost 40 years on this earth. Like it's just hard, Dina, it's hard. And that does translate into your work. Like I was the quintessential example of someone who sought external validation, people pleasing, overworking, because. I needed to feel good enough and nothing was ever good enough because it was always another case, another assignment, another thing to do.

[00:19:42] Dina: When is enough. Enough. I always ask when. What is? What Is defining your measuring stick? Yes. For when you will finally be satisfied. You know, you were talking about this self-love journey and I think about how this shows up in the workplace and I was thinking about myself [00:20:00] at like 23.

[00:20:02] Dina: 24. My first, and I remember first of all, trying like so desperately to put together a professional wardrobe on a shoestring budget. Okay. Yes. Hilarious.

[00:20:14] Arivee: Hilarious. Express, target.

[00:20:17] Dina: Express. Oh my gosh. I can't remember all the stores that I went to, but there was a lot of TJ Maxx shopping, I'll tell you that.

[00:20:24] Dina: Marshalls. Ballin a budget and you know, I remember being so deeply insecure in my body at the time. I actually, this was prior to getting a breast reduction, and I remember being so insecure about the way my body looked in the office. And I think it's is something as, it's not small, but you know, there's a detail of how I look at myself in the mirror every morning and how I feel in my body gets translated into how I show up in the workplace.

[00:20:55] Dina: Yes, whether or not I feel confident in speaking up [00:21:00] because if I just spent the whole morning beating myself up in the, in the mirror as I was getting ready for the day, and I show up in that conference room and I'm just like, don't look at me. Don't look at me. Oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. Oh my God, I hate the way I look in this blazer. Are people judging me? Are people looking at the way I look in this button down shirt that might be popping open? And there's just so, there's yeah, a million racing thoughts. And I think about the foundation from which I built a career and then had to literally blow it up because all of this negative self-talk wasn't doing me any favors.

[00:21:32] Dina: And I know so many women can relate to that. Because it is all connected. You think about this interplay of all of these factors and they all matter. Everybody is different.

[00:21:44] Arivee: Of course. And this is why it's so hard, you know, there, there are books called the Confidence Code, there are all these books out there.

[00:21:51] Dina: And what I find is that especially the, you know, and the woman I work with too, is that everyone is so different and the way that they see things is so different. [00:22:00] But I'm wondering if we can give women some guidance or questions to ask themselves. On how to try to break and interrupt. That cycle that we're talking will break that, interrupt that loop in their brain for sure.

[00:22:15] Arivee: To get them to show up a little differently and flip self-doubt on its head.

[00:22:20] Dina: Yeah. I oftentimes tell people one of the biggest antidote to self-doubt is to get deeply curious. Hmm. Yes. Why am I, why am I having these thoughts? So if I, if I were to use the example of where. I go back in the archives, 23 year old Dina feeling so deeply insecure in a white blazer in my very large chest. Okay? And I remember it because that was the, that was the blazer I had that I was so insecure. I would have these thoughts of saying I don't feel good enough in the role that I am in right now. I just, I do not feel good enough. I feel insecure, I feel inadequate. I'm comparing myself to everyone. So if I were to go jump back in time and ask, and I would get deeply curious, I would ask.

[00:23:05] Dina: Dina to really think to herself well, what is actually good enough? What is your definition? What are you measuring yourself against? What would it look like for you to actually feel good enough? And I think the more you peel back the layers, Of what your definition of it is. With enough time and stillness, you recognize that what you're chasing and comparing yourself to doesn't even exist.

[00:23:32] Dina: I did this exercise with a client of mine very recently, and we were talking about her performance and her role. And she was saying like, just don't feel like I'm doing a good enough job. And I said, well, what would, what would it take? What would it look like for you to feel confident? That you were doing a good job?

[00:23:49] Dina: Well, it would look like getting praised for my boss. And I said, well, what happened during your performance review? And she said, well, my boss praised me. Okay, so talk me through this again. What do you need in [00:24:00] order to feel like you're doing a good enough job like that you're smart enough that you're capable, that you are deserving of this role?

[00:24:06] Dina: She said, I don't know. I said, well, do you believe that your boss is telling you the truth? And she said, no, I don't. Mm-hmm. So is it that she actually doesn't believe her boss or she is refusing to be with the reality of, well, what would it mean if I actually admitted that I was good enough, then I would've to give up this story that I've been holding for 20 years that has defined me from head to toe and everything in between that I am knocked.

[00:24:33] Dina: And I'm constantly searching for that evidence to support it. I think it's, you know, it's what I talk about all the time. It's unlearning these patterns of thinking that one story is the only story that you can subscribe to. Hmm. Tell me more about that. Hmm. So I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed with taking women through this signature coaching framework that I designed as [00:25:00] part of a group coaching program called the Unlearning Lab.

[00:25:03] Dina: So first of all, you know, this iv, I decided to call my company Enough Labs because I look at confidence. Like an experiment. I think there are 1,000,001 ways where we get to test out what it looks like to be our most confident, unapologetic selves. And I think we get to test that out in labs, if you will.

[00:25:24] Dina: Labs can look like the workplace. It can look like our mirror. It can look like our friendships are intimate partner relationships. There's so many different spaces in schools and depending on where you are in age and your life journey. And I just feel like as women who are socialized to be perfect and pleasing at all costs, um, and what that oftentimes takes and the toll it, you know, wreaks on, on people, I think that there is a call to action for women to actually unlearn.

[00:25:59] Dina: To let go of the story and the conditions and the “shoulds” that they've been subscribing to for so long because they're toxic. And so I take women through this process of identifying the actual story that they've been telling themselves, and I've found that it's really one of six different stories in some way.

[00:26:16] Dina: They're all really super related. Uh, but when you are able to really define it, when you're able to name it without judgment, you start to actually get to the root of who you. Really are. Mm-hmm. Who you truly are at your core, because you can't get to the core of who you are, what you like, what you feel good at.

[00:26:39] Dina: If you're constantly looking at life and everything you do inside of it, through the lens of that story. I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough, I'm too old, I'm too young. I'll be a failure. People are gonna judge me. It's one version or several versions of that same story. And I'm telling you, I know this [00:27:00] because I've said every single one of those stories to myself.

[00:27:02] Dina: Hmm. Can you relate me too clearly? Me too. So it's like when we let go of this storied version of ourselves, if we let go that of the things that happen to us that get to control how we see ourselves, there's just. An opening. There is permission. There's a different level of freedom that we get to access that looks totally different than what how we've been showing up.

[00:27:25] Arivee: Dina, you said the word freedom. And I'm thinking about when you truly believe a different story and a different perspective than you have spent most of your life believing. And even if it's not true, right, there's like a grieving process there. Oh sure. Of letting go of that. Cuz, because there is this, I dunno if you, if you feel this way, but it's almost like we expect not to be happy.

[00:27:49] Arivee: Like, we expect not to feel joy and we think the sh like, what is it? What's that saying? What that American saying? The shoe will drop on the other, what is it? Yeah.

[00:27:57] Dina: Yeah. We're always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Correct. There you go. Yes. [00:28:00] Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's, it's interesting cuz that same client that I was telling you about when I actually went through this process with her to keep getting curious and keep digging in to figure out why she was feeling this way, she actually said to me, well, it's not like I'm supposed to be happy.

[00:28:16] Dina: Like, who's actually happy in their job. And I was like, what? There are plenty of people who are very happy in their job. I know there are plenty of people. There are, and it's not about a job making you happy. It's Are you happy within? Yeah. Are you happy with what you're looking at every day? Can you sit with yourself and be like, I am so truly aligned with who I am that I don't need to perform, prove I don't need to.

[00:28:41] Dina: Do anything but be me. And I think that's a really courageous space that not a lot of women give themselves permission to feel into. Mm-hmm. That's, that's the freedom that I'm talking about. It's interesting because I think the other piece that you said, which I think is so powerful, Is the grieving of that former identity [00:29:00] of who you were when you were just so conditioned to believing that things don't work out.

[00:29:05] Dina: I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop. I can't settle into this, the grieving that is associated with that. Is so real. And I think unlearning, being on an unlearning journey of discovering new parts of yourself and letting these old parts of yourself go. It can feel really isolating. Yeah. I tell people all the time, this is not sexy.

[00:29:26] Dina: Like this is not cute, I promise going to get cute, but like in the midst of it, you are like, Why would anyone choose this? Like I, I wouldn't say it was great before, but yo, this fun, but here, but here, this is why.

[00:29:40] Arivee: This is what is so important. What you're saying is so important because what happens is most of us wait till there's a breakdown.

[00:29:50] Arivee: You don't have to do that. You can get uncomfortable before you hit that point. Right? And get really honest with yourself. And no, it's not fun. It's [00:30:00] uncomfortable. You can shatter things that you thought all of your life and realize, wait, I don't have to believe this. I don't have to do this to myself anymore.

[00:30:08] Arivee: I can choose something different from myself. And yeah, that is scary. So many women I talk to, Even challenged their own beliefs is very difficult for them cuz that's what a lot of their identity is based on. And so when you remove that or you challenge that, it's like a direct attack on who they are.

[00:30:25] Arivee: And they, they're like, why would I do this to myself? But this is to grow. And develop and to finally, if you really do wanna feel real true fulfillment in your life and you want freedom and peace, like so many women say, I just want some peace. I just want peace. And I'm like, to get the peace, you gotta go through the storm first.

[00:30:43] Arivee: And sometimes you have to self-generate a little bit of that because to get to your truth and face it is, to me, I think that's the hardest thing to do. Mm-hmm. Like I think one of the best questions I've been asked, and I don't get asked this often, And I actually was thinking about, wow, we don't get asked this [00:31:00] question often was, hey vie, like, are you happy?

[00:31:03] Arivee: And I'm like, Uh, interesting. But it's, it's that kind of question. Well, when you really think about it, it's like, okay, you, and you start, like, to me, I immediately go to the different areas of my life. How satisfied am I with the different areas of my life, and I do the will of life, and I have, you know, my own thing there.

[00:31:20] Arivee: But what a question to get at people's, what, what's really happening, and then you just dig deeper there.

[00:31:26] Dina: For sure. I mean, I think what's interesting that, but what you're saying is that desire to have peace. Mm. Is stemming from the fact that you. I'll just, I'm not a betting woman, but I'll just throw it out there, is that you're, you're most likely living on other people's terms.

[00:31:41] Dina: You're living for other people's expectations. So the lack of peace, the absence of peace, has everything to do with the distance that exists between your real self and the version that the world gets to see. It's misalignment.

[00:31:53] Arivee: Yes, there's a misalignment.

[00:31:56] Dina: there's discord. You are misaligned with the [00:32:00] person that you are trying to get to, that you catch glimpses of, but then that person doesn't get to be their full selves.

[00:32:07] Dina: They don't get to fully be experienced because you're too worried about making sure that the spouse is happy, that the family's happy, that the. Boss is happy that the community's happy, that the PTA is happy and you're trying everybody, you're trying to do it all and be it all. And what about really getting clear about how about not even jumping to, am I happy? Is, am I even clear on what I want?

[00:32:29] Arivee: A lot of women I talk to, I answer that. And a lot of, a lot of women say, I I need help figuring that out. Because they've been so reliant on expectations. And they mistakenly believe, and it's valid, like, but it's just a, it causes suffering when you believe that what's expected of me is what I should want, right?

[00:32:49] Arivee: And what I need to do. And it's like, well, no, we need to flip that. What, what kind of life do you wanna live? Like, what are your core values? Who are, who are you really? And then how can you [00:33:00] live your life in accordance with that?

[00:33:02] Dina: I love this. I love this work and I know that it's challenging and I know that at times it can suck.

[00:33:09] Dina: I know that when people speak to me inside of these conversations, people are like, I hate you. Like I don't wanna be this challenge. I've had that too, right? They it sometimes they get like really quiet. And they're like, yeah, and I can read so much through a computer screen. Mm. I swear I can't explain it, but there's, I don't know about you Arivee, but I feel like as a coach, I've gotten deeper in bed with my intuition, and when I say that, I just feel like I am so tuned in and I'm locked into what, what's being said and what's not being said.

[00:33:46] Arivee: Sometimes, sometimes you'll do, like, I know if you do this too, like what's that about? Yeah. Like, you're just, it's like very quick. You're like, Ooh, you said something there. What's underneath that? Yeah. And you ask it in different ways, but No, for sure.

[00:33:59] Dina: There's so much [00:34:00] underneath that. Yeah. It's about getting deeply curious. I mean, I think isn't, isn't it So it's scary to think that so many women have been living on autopilot for so long that they reach whatever moment. That arrives in their life and they're saying, I just don't think this is enough. I don't think this is doing it for me. And I think that when you are, like you said, growing up with immigrant parents or whatever your context is that has you chasing the validation through accomplishment, at a certain point you peak.

[00:34:30] Dina: There's nothing more to reach for. And I think that's the moment a lot of people are like, well, when When do you reach that state of enoughness? When do you realize that you're fully enough? I'm like, I would love to meet a woman who actually says she's fully there, because it's just, it's a lifelong journey. But I think what complicates it, what mucks it up, is that we're taught from an early age to chase the career, the education, the wedding, the kids, the house. The car. All of these things [00:35:00] that has nothing to do with how we feel about ourselves.

[00:35:13] Arivee: Thank you so much for listening to part one of this amazing conversation with Dina. Feel free to share your thoughts, your comments, what's coming up for you by emailing Dino or myself. Our emails and how to connect with us are actually in the show notes to this episode. So definitely take advantage of that and I look forward to sharing part two with you next time.

[00:35:50] Arivee: If you are a woman warrior or a woman working in other fast-paced corporate environments, And you're looking to heal less overwhelmed and unsure [00:36:00] and more empowered and fulfilled in your career and your personal life. Join my Women Empowering Women email community by going to to sign up.

[00:36:13] Arivee: Or you can click the link in the note of this episode. Don't forget to also grab my five step guide on how to get clarity on what needs to change to feel good about your life in this season, and how to make that change happen. You can get it at or scroll down in the notes to this episode and click on the link.

[00:36:37] Arivee: Finally, if you're loving these episodes, Spread that love by reviewing and rating this podcast so we can get more women feeling heard, feeling seen, inspired, and empowered. Until then, remember that you have way more power than you can imagine to create the change you want and deserve in [00:37:00] your life. To live a life you feel good about.

[00:37:05] Arivee: You're powerful now. So harness it now is your time.


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