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No, You’re Not an Imposter (Part 1)

Humble Rising E 75 April 2 2023

[00:00:00] We all deserve to have fulfilling careers and lives. We deserve to experience joy and peace, and freedom, and all of those things that make us feel truly alive.

[00:00:20] It takes a lot of courage for us to take the reins in our lives and take action that honors the deepest parts of ourselves in this current season of life. It takes a lot of courage to lean into growing and to lean into learning, and to know when it's time to make a change. I’m Arivee. I'm a first generation Latina, mom of three, and life and high performance coach to women just like you.

[00:00:50] And this podcast is for all of us looking to grow and learn and explore what a joyful and fulfilling life and [00:01:00] career can look like. And how to start living into that life right now. We're going to go deep, and we're going to honor our truth in this podcast, and the best thing is we're gonna do it together.

[00:01:13] So welcome to the Humble Rising Podcast.

[00:01:25] This week and next week we are going to tackle imposter syndrome. I don't mean to say it dramatically to make fun of it whatsoever. This is something that really does affect a lot of women, a lot of women of color. Some friends of mine from law school who are men actually would share with me that they have experienced this as well [00:01:46] and I remember having conversations with them in law school about this, too. And so we're going to define what imposter syndrome is, where it comes from, where it was developed, how the framework [00:02:00] was developed. And I'm gonna share with you some strategies and ways to navigate imposter syndrome if you feel like that's something that you've experienced and that you need help dealing with.

[00:02:15] So first, what is imposter syndrome? So imposter syndrome was actually first introduced by Pauline Clance and Suzanne Imes in their article ‘The Imposter Phenomenon in High Achieving Women: Dynamics and Therapeutic Intervention’ and this was in 1978. And in this article, they defined the imposter phenomenon as “internal experience of intellectual phonies”. [00:02:45] And they shared that this imposter syndrome is really prevalent in high achieving women across fields, including those who were recognized for academic excellence, who [00:03:00] were highly respected professionals, who had earned their PhDs. We're talking women who had done all the things.

And Clance and Imes interviewed over 150 successful women [00:03:12] between 20 and 45 to investigate what's up with this imposter phenomenon. And what they found was a lot of women or all of these women showing a lack of self-acknowledgement of their accomplishments, even though they were receiving external validation for their accomplishments, for their work, for their performance.

[00:03:36] But these women believed strongly that their success and what they had accomplished was the result of pure luck. And they thought that people were just overestimating their intellectual abilities in their performance. So the imposter [00:04:00] phenomenon or imposter syndrome really impacted women’s and still does impacts women's self-esteem. [00:04:07] It can impact their likelihood of foreign anxiety and depression, and obviously there are societal systemic factors that play into this, right? So Clance and Imes, who were psychologists doing the study, they primarily based their study on white, middle to upper class women, because during that time the country was still working through the women's liberation movement, and they actually found some confirming evidence in another study that was around that time.

[00:04:40] And the other study also showed that women were attributing their success to luck, and men, at that time, were attributing their success to their own ability. And so today what we know, as I just alluded to, there are real systemic challenges for women and women of color in the workplace due to racism and [00:05:00] pain equities, and I could go on and on about that in a different episode.

[00:05:05] According to a study by McKinsey & Company, in 2019, for every 100 men promoted to higher positions, only 86 women get the chance to be promoted. Obviously the study reveals like some of the causes of that, but we know some of those causes are gender stereotyping, racism, lack of physical representation. So let's talk a little bit more about the characteristics of imposter syndrome.

[00:05:31] Think about whether this resonates with you. So some of the common characteristics, or I would say like descriptors or traits that a person is experiencing imposter syndrome are you may be, you're overachieving. You experience self-doubt. You're setting really, really high standards or goals. You criticize your own work and your performance [00:05:54] even when other people are saying, “You're doing great”, you kind of hesitate. You can't really take that in and you [00:06:00] hesitate and you're just like, “Oh no, it wasn't that great. Like, why are you saying it's so great?” You attribute your success to external factors. Like you say, oh, I only got that opportunity because my mentor shared that with me, or a sponsor helped me out.

[00:06:12] You're attributing your success and your accomplishments to something outside of yourself. And this could be you too failing to consider your skills and your capabilities that you've developed over time and with very hard work. And it could also be you that you fear you are not able to meet expectations, and a lot of times it's because your own expectations of yourself are so incredibly high.

[00:06:38] But imposter syndrome is seen everywhere, right? You can see it in students, especially college students, right? In work, in how you parent. There are so many different ways it can manifest. And so if you feel like you might have imposter syndrome, I want you to try to honestly answer these [00:07:00] questions I'm about to share with you.

[00:07:01] Number one, do I feel very sensitive or offended when I receive constructive criticism? Do I think that I'm a phony, that I'm a fraud? That I'm afraid that others might find me out. Do I attribute my accomplishments to luck or external factors or people? Do I feel overly anxious about making a small mistake in my work? [00:07:27] Do I doubt or do I intentionally diminish or downplay my expertise and my experience and my capabilities?

If your answer to any of these questions I mentioned is a yes, especially that one about being afraid to be found out and saying that your achievements are due to luck or to someone else, to something else, and you're downplaying your skills, your capabilities, all that you've done, [00:07:55] I really wanna encourage you to get curious here. This is an invitation to you.

[00:08:00] You can pause here or you can rewind and listen back to the questions I just asked. You can write down whether you feel the answer to any of these questions are something that you feel resonates with you and you can share with yourself [00:08:13] when you write this down the reasons you feel or think this resonates with you as well.

So you're gonna ask me, “Okay, Arivee. I resonate with some of these questions. I'm answering them honestly. I wrote this down. So what do I do with this information? Like, oh, okay, I do feel this way. What now?” So what now? I'm gonna give you the ‘what now’?

[00:08:36] Now, okay. So I want you to try an exercise. You asked me “What now?” so I'm gonna give you an exercise, and I hope that you are open to doing it. You wanna feel differently? We have to do something different. We have to reframe our mindset. We have to face what is here, what is the truth, and then move through that.

[00:08:56] Okay, so here's the exercise. This one again does [00:09:00] require you to write things down and you will find, I hope that there is so much power in you seeing all of this written down. Okay? So I want you to write down your accomplishments and every twist and turn it took for you to get where you are. Yup, yup, [00:09:22] all of it. I know you're thinking, “Oh my gosh, that's a lot.” Yep, it is a lot. And that's great that you just said it was a lot. Right? You're not gonna downplay those things, you just said it was a lot. We didn't say it, but I know you're thinking it. I want you to recognize and see on paper all of your accomplishments, because clearly your resume isn't doing it enough for you.

[00:09:44] The fact that you're high achieving and high performing and have had successes isn't resonating enough, right? So I want you to take yourself way back and through a journey, and write down all of your accomplishments and everything you've been [00:10:00] through to get to where you are today. And here's the thing. Be specific. Be detailed. Be especially specific when you discuss how hard you've worked, your late nights, your sacrifices, and how you figured out difficult things before. Like when you doubted yourself, [00:10:19] how did you move through that before? Because I know you've made sacrifices. I know you've worked. And not everyone was willing to make those same sacrifices, and you know this. Not everyone was going at it like you were going at it.

Especially for women of color, not everyone is one of the few. Not everyone is the only one. [00:10:38] Not everyone goes through what you went through to earn your seat. You've earned your seat. You've earned where you are. You belong at that table. So go ahead. List all those accomplishments and every success you have had, the twists and the turns, [00:11:00] to get to this moment. And when I say twist and turn, I mean the setbacks, how you navigated them and pressed forward showing the resilience and the grit that you have.

[00:11:13] Okay? That's step one of the exercise. Okay? Step two, I want you to consider something. So, you know when you see people speak with a lot of confidence and you're like, “Um, okay, I may not know everything, but that doesn't make any sense, or that doesn't make much sense.” You're thinking this, you're not gonna say that out loud. [00:11:36] Please don't say that out loud to anyone. Don't be rude. Use your filter. And use your judgment always. Or maybe someone is saying something that is actually inaccurate. But they say it with such confidence, you kind of think to yourself, “Wait, is he right? Like, is he right?” No, boo. He's not right. Okay? Confidence is the way that someone shows up in that way [00:12:00] that appears to be confidence doesn't always equate to competence.

[00:12:04] Confidence doesn't equate to competence. Please do not be fooled. Give yourself credit for what you do know and trust your instincts when you are with people. You have knowledge and you have experience. So trust what you know and trust in your experience. Tell yourself “I trust in my knowledge, I trust in my experience. [00:12:28] I trust in all the work I've put in to learn what I've learned and to know what I know.” And can I just say that if you do believe something is not accurate, please say something. Don't be quiet. Again, you belong at the table. Don't keep quiet. If you don't know how to do that, like you're looking for the words of like, “Wait, but Arivee, how do I actually do that thing at the table when we're in the meeting?

[00:12:57] And here are some ways you can do that. “Uh, I have another [00:13:00] perspective.” Or you can say, “Hmm, what if X was the case?” Or you can say, “I disagree”. My entire career, like from the very beginning, I've been in rums with people who are disagreeing with each other, right? Because they're trying to get to the best solution. [00:13:15] So they're gonna debate and that's normal. That's natural. That's good. That gets you to the right solution. We want that. So you need to be engaged in those conversations. That's how you add value.

Again, trust in your knowledge, trust in your experience, okay? You can say you don't agree. You can speak up. You have a different perspective, and you add value that way. [00:13:38] You aren't being quote unquote difficult. When everyone is like, “Oh yeah, that's great.” And you're like, “Actually, I have a different perspective.” No, no, no, no, no. That's gonna help us get to an even better solution. Okay? I want you to really think about this. How are you feeling in that moment at the table when you wanna say something but you're like, “Mm, I don't know. [00:13:59] What do I know?”

[00:14:00] Like, no, no, no, no, no. Yes, you do know, and you have the experience, and you've built your own capabilities and you've learned a ton. You're not being paid to say yes to everything. You're being paid to add value in your unique way, but we don't know that unless you say something. You speak up and you share that beautiful value. [00:14:20] Again, you belong at the table where you can show up that way. Show up and own that you belong at the table because you do. You've earned it.

Now, the third point I wanna make is something that I've been thinking about a lot when I talk to. I would say not necessarily entry-level, experienced women, right? So women who graduate from college, who have been in the professional world maybe for under five years, [00:14:48] that's what I would say as entry-level. And people could disagree with me, but that's my view on that. I've been having these conversations where people are saying, like a lot of women of [00:15:00] color will come to me and they'd be like, “I just wanna be more confident. Like how do I become more confident?”

[00:15:04] And this relates to imposter syndrome because imposter syndrome, much of it is about like, “I feel like I'm a fraud. I feel like I only have this because of luck or because of someone else, or because of an external force. Not because I deserve it, I've earned it and because I'm smart and capable and have the skills.” Right?

[00:15:25] And when you're confident, I mean, confidence, people define it all different ways, but when you're confident, to me what that means is you have an inner knowing that you can figure stuff out. You have an inner knowing that you know what you know and that you know what you do not know, right? You're willing to share that, but you are able to navigate through ambiguity and say, “Okay, I may not have the resources, but I'm gonna be resourceful and I'm gonna figure this out. [00:15:53] I may not know the answer to this. I may not know what they're talking about in the room, but I'm gonna find my way to figure it out.” [00:16:00] Right? And so a lot of women I talk to are like, “How do I get more confidence?” And again, these are more entry-level women, but if you are struggling with this and you're not in that five or less years of experience, this is gonna apply to you too.

[00:16:15] I just see it a lot more with women at that experience level. That's why I'm mentioning it. But I've definitely seen it with women with 10 plus years of experience as well. So I wanna share something. I'm gonna share something that will probably disappoint my entry-level experience, folks, but I believe this to be true.

[00:16:33] You can take it or leave it, right? Confidence will come from experience and time. And you're like, “Oh no, I don't wanna wait.” You’re so impatient. I know because I used to be like that too. I'm still like that in some ways.

But here's what I'm gonna share with you. So when I was a junior associate at a big law firm, we were at trial and [00:16:58] the head [00:17:00] trial partner was holding a team meeting in a big conference room. So it was like him, and it was a few other partners. One other partner was in litigation, the other was non-litigation. He was more like the client partner. He was on the corporate side and the other associates on the team, maybe four or five of us were also there.

[00:17:18] Two of those associates were my year. So we were both junior. The other ones were more senior. And the head trial partner, so head trial partner means like he's determining strategy. Yes, with the other partners, but he really is making the call with the client. And he turns to me and he asks me, “Hey, I think you should draft the direct examination outline for the defense's questions.

[00:17:42] And I, like inside, I was like, “Oh my God, that's amazing.” So it may not seem amazing when I talk about it, but when you're a junior associate and you get the chance to do like a direct examination outline, a cross-examination outline, a brief, like you get excited about that stuff and I was a nerd and [00:18:00] geeked out and all that.

[00:18:01] In that time of my life, I was all about that. Okay. And it was really true for me. Like I really loved the opportunity to do something like that. So I was like in my head and in my heart feeling a little giddy. Like “Yes, he asked me.” Okay, that would be poo-poo in about two seconds. So that feeling of like, “Oh my God, he picked me”, was poo-pooed because there was another partner who was sitting across from me.

[00:18:26] So the head litigation partner is to my left at the head of the table. And the other corporate partner who's really the client relationship partner is sitting across from me, I would say like three feet. I mean the width of the table, right? Not the long side, the short side. And he literally looks at me and turns to the head trial partner.

[00:18:45] We're all in the room, like I'm in the room. And he says, “But maybe shouldn't we give it to somebody else? Like I don't know if she's the right person to do it.” Like, “I'm there, dude. I can hear you. Hello.” And here's the thing though, [00:19:00] my two colleagues, there were three of us, we were all the same year. None of us had done a direct examination outline before.

[00:19:06] None of us. And he wasn't talking about the ninth year, who would be making partner of the following year. He wasn't talking about her. He was looking at the other two guys. And the only difference between us was that they were white guys. And the head partner looks at him and goes, “No, I think she can do it. Like she's gonna do it.”

[00:19:24] And I looked at him and I just like didn't say anything. And I looked at the corporate guy, the other partner, and I remember looking at him and being like, “You know what? The best way for you to make me do my best work is to tell me that I'm not qualified to do the work. Oh, you don't even know me.”

[00:19:45] Like that's how it was back then. I'm still a little away. I'm still a little bit like that. I still got that fire. But at that time, early in my career, I mean, I haven't doubted all of my life. This dude was not going to think that I was gonna be doubted and shrink under that. [00:20:00] Like, no, no, no, no, no. You don't know me.

[00:20:02] You don't know my ancestors. Okay. So I share that story because I had no confidence in tackling that direct examination outline. I was just really hungry and I was like, “Yo, I'm gonna prove these people. I'm gonna prove this guy wrong and I'm gonna do such an amazing job that he has no choice but to eat his words.” And I'm not gonna say anything to him.

[00:20:25] I'm gonna show it through my work. I'm gonna show it through my work. That's what I'm gonna do. And I remember that moment was so critical for me because when I did produce that direct examination outline, that lead partner called another meeting. We were all there again. He printed out the outline that I created, that direct examination outline.

[00:20:48] He's like leaning back in his chair. He's reading like the first page is like, you know, not exciting. Like “State your name for the record, blah, blah, blah.” But he gets to like the real questions and he's leaning back in his chair and he's like, [00:21:00] “Oh, this is where it gets really good. Oh, this is really good.” And he is looking at me.

[00:21:05] And then he looks at that corporate partner, the client relationship partner, and I look at the client relationship partner. I just look at him and in my head I'm like, “Take that.” Like, it’s just in my head. I didn't say it. I didn't say it. I didn't need to say anything. But that was a moment where I was like, I can write a direct examination outline.

[00:21:24] Okay? I can write at least one. I can figure it out and write at least one, right? And then I went on to write a ton more, and then I got more confident so like the fifth time, the sixth time, the seventh time, even doing like a deposition outline. You do those over and over. You feel more confident in your ability to do them.

[00:21:44] So confidence to me, in many ways comes from repetition of doing the same thing. You're practicing and practicing. That means the next time you go do it, you're like, “I can do that.” That's confidence. I can, I will. You're doubting yourself less. But to me it comes [00:22:00] from experiencing it and engaging in the thing, right?

[00:22:03] So I share that in a specific context though. And I wanna be really clear. So I worked a lot. Long hours. If you are a lawyer listening to this at a firm, you're a consultant, you're at a corporation that's like go, go, go, go, go. Fast pace, you know, you know what I'm talking about? The work. Even government jobs or you're just like, there's less resources, right?

[00:22:25] Like, you know what I mean? But for me, the work, the long hours, all I knew at that time when I was starting my career, because no one in my family had done this, right? So I felt a lot was on my shoulders for my community, my family. And not that they expected anything of me, but that I felt like I wanted to make them proud, you know?

[00:22:42] And all I knew at that time was to hustle for validation that I was meant to do this, be a lawyer at that time, and that my work was good and that I was a high performer. I needed to feel that I was earning that title. I may not have a boat. You know how many people talked about their boats when I was [00:23:00] at my first law firm?

[00:23:01] Like the boats they took everywhere. They talked about their houses in Cape Cod. There is nothing wrong with having that at all. There's nothing wrong with having generational wealth. But when you come from a group that's marginalized and that's oppressed, it's really hard to be in those freaking conversations where someone's talking about their grandfather's vote and their trust fund.

[00:23:21] That's tough to be at that table. I may belong there because I'm an associate just like them with the same experience level. They have to put in the work just like me, but do they really have to put in that work? Like they can just not work, but I do. I had general wealth to create. Many of them are already coming from that.

[00:23:40] Not all of them, not all of them. Don't get it twisted. Not all of them, but many that I met were like that. And the ones who were not, it was more refreshing and they, to me, felt more down to earth, less stuffy, more humble. And so there's just a wide range of people you meet, especially in these kinds of environments.

[00:23:59] But I was [00:24:00] focused at that time. It's like I took mental notes, like, “Okay, you have a boat, you have a house in Cape Cod, you have generational wealth.” I don't have any of that, but you know what I have, I have my work ethic. I have been through some stuff. I have been behind a lot in my life, quote unquote, behind.

[00:24:15] I've had to catch up and excel, catch up, and exceed expectations of me. I've had to prove many people wrong for myself and for my community because I know that you know that one of us messes up, you're black, you're Asian, you're Latinx, whenever one of us messes up, you know there are people out there who feel like, “Damn, you messed it up for all of us.”

[00:24:35] And I know you have a story right now in your head where you know, someone has said to you, “But we hired the black person last year. We hired the Latina last year, and it didn't work out.” You don't say that when you talk about hiring a white person. You don't say, “Oh, we hired that white guy last year and he didn't work out, so we're not hiring anymore white people.”

[00:24:53] You don't say that. Now, these are all conversations that happen behind closed doors. They may not be as explicit as that. [00:25:00] They'll never be in an email, but these are conversations that can happen. This is the way some people think. Again, some not all. Let's not overgeneralize here. And I share this because [00:25:10] my attitude about working people and being willing to work to prove people wrong, being willing to work my behind off to be great at my craft as a lawyer, to raise my hand on the holidays because I was like, “I'm at work and I'm gonna show you that you can count on me.” Yes, we can talk about the root of that is very much a scarcity mindset.

[00:25:29] We can talk about why I did that. Right? But at that time, I didn't know what I know now. Okay. That was my truth at the time, and I'm honoring that. Work was my priority. I had no other priorities at the time. I just didn't. Right? I was paying my rent, paying my loans, paying my bills, and going to work, having fun with some friends, seeing my family occasionally, but work was my priority.

[00:25:54] And I would say it took me a good four years, I would say maybe five, I had, you know, two [00:26:00] clerkships worked at the firm. It took years of experience to feel that way, to feel like, “Hey, I can do this. I'm good at this.” I feel like if you give me something new, I can figure it out because we've done so many things for thousands of hours already, right?

[00:26:13] I've been writing, I've been speaking, I've been debating, I've been researching. Like I'm pretty sure that I know what I know. I know what I don't know, and I know I worked hard to learn and know what I know and I trust in what I know. I'm not attached to it because again, if someone has a better idea or we can put our ideas together and create a really great solution, that's better.

[00:26:35] That's always better, right? But your confidence comes with experience. It comes with time. It comes with the patience to know that you are acquiring all of these hours, all this practice, and you are acquiring confidence slowly but consistently. Now, let's be real. If you are writing, if you're writing a brief all the time, all the time, all the time, [00:26:59] [00:27:00] all the time, yes, you're gonna be more confident sooner. But I'm sharing just a general sense that confidence doesn't come tomorrow. It comes with experience, time, and patience. Maybe that's not what you wanna hear, but I'm wary of the person who does something once and has all this confidence as if they've done it 100 times when they have not.

[00:27:21] Again, you learn from multiple experiences, flexing your skills in different situations and with different people. And then you know, on the flip side, not to confuse you, but on the flip side, don't confuse experience with competence. Don't confuse experience with competence. I remember seeing lawyers in the courtroom and I've seen some amazing, amazing attorneys in oral argument.

[00:27:47] Like I was like, “Wow, where were they trained?” Just knew their stuff, knew exactly what needed to be highlighted in oral argument and what did not. I have seen lawyers with [00:28:00] six years of experience. Blow lawyers with 25 years of experience out the water because those attorneys with six years of experience, they practice oral argument.

[00:28:10] They are in court all the time. They're used to being on their feet. They're used to answering questions on the fly. They're good on their feet because they've practiced it over and over. And then some of the other attorneys of 20 plus years of experience, they don't get to hold arguments that much. So they're flustered.

[00:28:28] They come across as disorganized. They come across as they're not as prepared as they should be. They have the junior associates with all the binders, and they are not arguing the way that you, as a junior associate, think they should be arguing. You're kind of like, “Wait, is this it? Like, is this how it goes?”

[00:28:43] No, it's not how it goes. It’s that they haven't had the practice. Writing and speaking are very different. Writing an oral argument is very different. You have to practice them both to be great at them. So don't confuse like quote unquote years of experience with qualification. Just years of experience [00:29:00] with competence, right?

[00:29:01] It has to be quality. It has to be practice. You have to practice it. You have to have the experience, the real experience of doing the thing to have the competence in the thing. Right? You can't get great at something that you don't practice, and you can't get great at something that you don't practice consistently.

[00:29:17] I think of like Derek Jeter and Michael Jordan and how with Derek Jeter, if you've ever seen the documentary, how his friends knew, don't bother Derek because he's in the garage practicing. He's in the garage practicing hitting balls and he needs to hit a certain amount before he comes out to hang out.

[00:29:37] So don't bother him bacause he's focused. Michael Jordan always in the gym. Every free time, always in the gym. Kobe Bryant always in the gym, always practicing that shot over and over and over and over and over. That's what makes greatness. You gotta do it over and over and then find new ways to do that thing over and over and over.

[00:29:57] So you're gonna get there, you're gonna get there. [00:30:00] The good was that you're gonna get there. You don't have to wait forever, but you need to have that practice, right? And you will, you're doing it. How about we trust in what you already know. Okay, I know what I have to learn moving forward. How about we celebrate where we are, all of our accomplishments and say, you know what, “Okay, here's what I wanna learn [00:30:16] moving forward.” We can have a growth mindset and still celebrate ourselves and our accomplishments, right? Instead of saying, “Oh, I don't know that yet. I don't know that, I don't know that yet.” You can say, “Oh, I don't know that yet, but I'm gonna learn it. So next week, I'm going to share more strategies for navigating imposter syndrome or self-doubt.

[00:30:39] Whatever you wanna call it. Okay? Because some people say it's self-doubt, imposter syndrome, because there are systemic issues there and this idea of self-agency, so people will use them interchangeably. I'll call it imposter syndrome right now, just for simplicity's sake. But I'm going to share some more strategies for how to navigate it and what I want you to do, even from what I've shared today is I [00:31:00] really do want you to take what works for you.

[00:31:02] Consider what could work for you. Try it, but leave it if you feel like it won't help. Okay? This is an invitation to you. This isn't like you must do this, or you will forever be plagued by imposter syndrome. Like that's not what this is. This is an invitation for you to consider another approach to help you.

[00:31:19] And everyone is different. Everyone navigates this differently. Everyone navigates life differently. So if you know yourself, which I know you do. Take what works for you, try it, consider it, and leave what doesn't work for you. Okay? So until next week, you know where to find me, you know how to connect with me.

[00:31:38] Be sure to get on my email list to connect with me for some motivational emails, some inspirational emails, especially when it comes to towards the end of the week. Right. So until next week, know that you have the power now to change whatever you need to change. You have the power now to create the experience you wanna have.

[00:31:57] You have that power, you just need to harness it a [00:32:00] little bit, and you'll be amazed at what can come out of that.

[00:32:14] Thank you so much for listening. If you’re a woman lawyer or a woman working in other fast-paced corporate environments, and you're looking less overwhelmed and unsure and more empowered and fulfilled in your career and your personal life, join my Women Empowering Women email community by going to to sign up, or you can click the link in the note of this episode.

[00:32:45] Don't forget to also grab my five step guide on how to get clarity on what needs to change to feel good about your life in this season, and how to make that change happen. You can get it or [00:33:00] scroll down in the notes to this episode and click on the link. Finally, if you're loving these episodes, spread that love by reviewing and rating this podcast so we can get more women feeling heard, feeling seen, inspired, and empowered.

[00:33:17] Until then, remember that you have way more power than you can imagine to create the change you want and deserve in your life, to live a life you feel good about. You're powerful now. So harness it. Now is your time.[00:34:00]


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